Talk:Winter's Fury

Custom things table
0	20501	Blot	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	24012	Ice imp	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	24016	Ice soul	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	24013	Ice demon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	17229	Void fiend	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	30116	Ice revenant	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	24017	Ice cacodemon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	26619	Vampire	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	24015	Ice mancubus	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	30072	Ice archon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	24014	Ice knight	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	10862	Void phantasm	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	12473	Ice archvile	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	30109	Ice smith	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	31947	Darkness	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	32766	Darkness 2	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	31061	Cho' Gath	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	31062	Cho' Gath	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	31064	Cho' Gath	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	3122	Ice cardinal	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	12344	Azmodan	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	12345	Diablo	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	3121	Ice cardinal	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	13339	Ice cyberdemon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	11063	Void Cho' Gath	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	3120	Ice cardinal	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	13338	Ice cyberdemon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	30114	Ice Baphomet	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	13337	Ice cyberdemon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	30113	Ice Baphomet	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20115	Baphomet	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	30112	Ice Baphomet	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20114	Baphomet	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20113	Baphomet	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	31063	Ice Cho' Gath	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	11616	Darkness 3	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	32760	Darkness 4	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	12421	Darkness 5	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	32761	Darkness 6	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 2	2002	Machinegun	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 2	2006	Photon cannon	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 2	18765	Remote teleporter	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 7	30110	Ice smith statue 8	10320	Snow spawner 8	10321	White spark spawner 8	10322	Red spark spawner 8	10323	Orange spark spawner 8	10324	Yellow spark spawner 8	10325	Green spark spawner 8	10326	Blue spark spawner 8	10327	Purple spark spawner 8	12228	Steam spawner 8	20007	Fire spawner 8	10000	UTNT torch spawner 8	18277	T portal 8	18276	T portal permanent 8	30104	Zooming ice soul spawner
 * 1) class	thingID	wikiname	wikilink

Should be complete. Some bosses have different HP on depending on the difficulty, hence some monsters appearing multiple times. --Matador (talk) 16:16, 10 March 2022 (CST)
 * Added 10th anniversary edition things. --Xymph (talk) 09:02, 10 January 2023 (CST)
 * This table is not precise: 1) It shows things that were cut from the mod in 2022 version (10th ann.) - IDs 20501, 17229, 26619, 11063; 2) It lacks some things too, like all the Void monsters (20033...20042) from MAP07B; 3) Some things were renamed in 2022 (example: Cho' Gath became Demon Queen). --Nockson (talk) 13:57, 8 March 2023 (CST)
 * That is not precise enough. I need the exact mapping of new IDs and names in the format above. --Xymph (talk) 16:17, 8 March 2023 (CST)

Winter's Fury versions
Hello!

I've got a question/proposition. Is it necessary to keep original/10th anniversary version division for Winter's Fury? Because 10th ann. is not a new release, it's just an update. For example - 1 hour ago I've added a location of the secret log at MAP01 for the so-called "original edition" using v1.1 of the mod (made in 2012 close to its release). But in newer version 2016.5 this log was moved somewhere else. I think that this whole situation is different from, for example, 2002 ADO. In that particular case the 10th ann. release was actually a separate release. Pcorf even wrote that he don't want to "overwrite the original". That's why there are two separate idgames download links. WF, in my opinion, is a different case. Pyroscourge kept updating download links at DWforums. It's difficult to get all the older versions. I don't even think that WF can be treated as truly "released" mod, as it was never uploaded to idgames.

Sorry for the long read, I just want to suggest this: let's keep up with the recent (so-called 10th ann.) version of WF and delete all the material for previous versions. Otherwise it would be a very big article, because every version made changes, even to maps! --Nockson (talk) 14:54, 7 March 2023 (CST)
 * While I've only ever played the older release some years ago, from what I've seen of it and of the updates done, I'd say I agree with your assesment of the situation. --Dynamo128 (talk) 16:09, 7 March 2023 (CST)


 * Well, I dunno, I don't follow release histories of any mod in detail. But I don't mind either way, so feel free to change stuff. --Xymph (talk) 16:21, 7 March 2023 (CST)
 * I've made an experimental edit for MAP01. This is how I see it - no details for anything but the latest version. What do you think? Can I change other WF articles this way? --Nockson (talk) 01:27, 8 March 2023 (CST)


 * Pity about all the manual work put into covering both versions, but okay, I suppose this is clearer. Just mark all expired map images for speedy delete too, similar to here. --Xymph (talk) 02:25, 8 March 2023 (CST)

Changes to custom things
What is the source for things statistics in map articles? WF's MAP03 says that there are monsters called "Cho' Gath", but this creature was renamed into "Demon Queen" in the 10th ann. update. --Nockson (talk) 10:21, 8 March 2023 (CST)
 * The WAD, DMMPST, and, for mods with custom things, the table above. --Xymph (talk) 11:17, 8 March 2023 (CST)
 * I failed with using DMMPST, but have another question. Check out MAP04A of WF (again). This map is just a big battle with two big bosses (Ice Queens). However, table in the article shows that there are no such monsters there, just regular enemies which spawn sometimes during fight. I've looked the map using Doom Builder 2. There are no Ice Queens there (ID 31063), but they are spawned after cutscene via map scripts. Should I update the thing table accordingly? Is there any way in future to not miss such things for your bot? --Nockson (talk) 13:40, 8 March 2023 (CST)


 * DMMPST is not a bot but a C program analyzing the level's things lump. It doesn't and will never understand scripting. Spawned things are usually noted above the table to be unlisted, or they can be added manually like you did, but are then better marked with a note below the table similar to this.
 * If WF's custom roster changed, that should be described in the section above with the new IDs. From your Demon Queen additions it would seem the third one should be marked '(Hard)' or somesuch. Also, they should be described on the main WF page.
 * Please keep topics about an article with the article, not my personal talk page. --Xymph (talk) 14:09, 8 March 2023 (CST)
 * I meant XymphBot, and how it automatically fills articles with the info about things. Nope, third Demon Queen is just Demon Queen in the wad. I have plans to rewrite WF page, just wanted to specify some details first. Now I understand what to do, thanks! --Nockson (talk) 14:37, 8 March 2023 (CST)
 * To clarify, XymphBot is a bot account, not an automatic or autonomous entity. DMMPST generates the tables, dmmpstBot.php just puts it in the articles, manually initiated by me. --Xymph (talk) 16:17, 8 March 2023 (CST)

Updated custom things table (2022)
0	24012	Ice imp	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	60 0	24016	Ice soul	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	100 0	24013	Ice demon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	150 0	30116	Ice revenant	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	300 0	24017	Ice cacodemon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	400 0	24014	Ice knight	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	500 0	24015	Ice mancubus	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	600 0	30072	Ice archon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	1000 0	12473	Ice archvile	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	1100 0	30109	Ice smith	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	3000 0	10862	Void phantasm	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	1000 0	20033	Void ice imp	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20040	Void ice soul	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20034	Void ice demon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20037	Void ice revenant	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20041	Void ice cacodemon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20035	Void ice knight	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20038	Void ice mancubus	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20036	Void ice archon	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20039	Void ice archvile	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	20042	Void ice queen	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters 0	31947	Darkness	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	5000 0	32766	Darkness 2	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	5000 0	31061	Demon queen (easy)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	6000 0	31062	Demon queen (normal)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	7000 0	31064	Demon queen (hard)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	8000 0	12344	Azmodan	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	10000 0	12345	Diablo	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	10000 0	3122	Ice cardinal (easy)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	8000 0	3121	Ice cardinal (normal)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	10000 0	3120	Ice cardinal (hard)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	12000 0	13339	Ice cyberdemon (easy)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	10000 0	13338	Ice cyberdemon (normal)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	13000 0	13337	Ice cyberdemon (hard)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	16000 0	30114	Ice Baphomet (easy)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	15000 0	30113	Ice Baphomet (normal)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	17500 0	30112	Ice Baphomet (hard)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	20000 0	20115	Baphomet (easy)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	20000 0	20114	Baphomet (normal)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	22500 0	20113	Baphomet (hard)	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	25000 0	31063	Ice queen	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	30000 0	11616	Darkness 3	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	999999999 0	32760	Darkness 4	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	99999999999 0	12421	Darkness 5	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	999999999 0	32761	Darkness 6	Winter's Fury#Custom monsters	99999999999 2	2001	Nano shotgun	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 2	82	Nano super shotgun	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 2	2002	Nano machinegun	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 2	2003	Nano rocket launcher	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 2	2004	Nano plasma rifle	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 2	2006	Nano darkfire narrator	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 2	18765	Remote teleportation pickup	Winter's Fury#Custom weapons 5	29876	Datapad	Winter's Fury#Custom items 5	29877	Datapad final	Winter's Fury#Custom items 5	2023	Nano berserk	Winter's Fury#Custom items 7	24018	Large coupling I've updated the things info (it's sorted by ID). I hope someone will check this, there may be errors. I left question marks where I wasn't sure about class. --Nockson (talk) 15:05, 13 March 2023 (CDT)
 * 1) class	thingID	wikiname	wikilink
 * Sorry but that is wrong. Like the original list, it should be sorted by class, and the original order within each class must remain the same. Monsters are sorted by hit points. Items with no gameplay value should be left out. In short, the original list should be only updated with relevant things removed/changed/added in the 10th anniversary edition, with no other changes. --Xymph (talk) 16:08, 13 March 2023 (CDT)
 * Okay, I will fix it. What about weapons? WF has custom weapons, most of them has "nano" prefix inside DECORATE. Should I delete them? How to sort them? How to sort custom items? Do you need things with classes 7 and 8 then? --Nockson (talk) 16:25, 13 March 2023 (CDT)
 * Weapons are ordered by slot, like in the main game. I'm not sure the nano prefix is relevant, Matador left them out. Items are usually sorted alphabetically, as are remaining classes. Class 8 is not rendered in Doom thing tables, it's just a way of documenting stuff. Class 7 should only list things with gameplay value, e.g. that can be interacted with. See the aforementioned table of things natively supported in DMMPST for an idea what fits and what doesn't. Btw, your current list is using a space instead of tab between 2nd and 3rd column, but I can fix that before using it. --Xymph (talk) 17:02, 13 March 2023 (CDT)
 * I've fixed table again. Should be fine now. I've put monsters' HP at the end of entrys. I've also removed everything with classes 7 and 8, because none of them matters. I think weapons should stay with "nano" prefix to tell them apart from classic ones. I will write about every one of them in the WF article. Next, there's a question about void monsters. None of them has HP in the decorate. They are highly scripted. I've arranged them in order of their original ice variants. Finally, items 29876-29877 are called logbooks in the pk3, but I renamed them datapads (because that's what they look like). These are hidden items that contain secret logs. If it's not permitted, let's return to original names. --Nockson (talk) 03:10, 14 March 2023 (CDT)


 * Mostly okay, thanks. I just reordered some entries so like-named monsters are grouped together. The coupling has no wikilink so I removed the hit points, otherwise it would get linked to a non-existing page "50". All thing tables have now been updated, the changes are not as extensive as I expected. The most notable one is the disappearance of the Ice Queen from MAP04A. --Xymph (talk) 16:15, 14 March 2023 (CDT)
 * I'm glad to help. The coupling is just some reactor-like stationary thing, that player have to shoot to put down force fields. It does have some HP, but I'm not sure that it counts as a monster. I will return Ice queens to map04A though, they are spawned by a script (we talked about it). I think it's strange for a things' table to not include two boss creatures that you fight in this level. And what about Void phantasm? Is it entirely absent in the wad? --Nockson (talk) 16:33, 14 March 2023 (CDT)


 * Oh right, manual return done. In that case, I moved the coupling to the misc. class, like barrels. Nope, no phantasm in things data. --Xymph (talk) 16:55, 14 March 2023 (CDT)